Project name: AL3283
Date of interview: 8 December 2009
Location of interview: Rietfontein, Pretoria
Language/s of interview: Afrikaans
Length of interview: 4 minutes 15 seconds
Name of Interviewer: De Wet Potgieter
Name of interviewee/s: Inspector Joppie van Staden
Name of translator (if any): De Wet Potgieter
Name of transcriber:
Notes on access and use (if any):
Audio file name/s of interview: AL3283_PTA_VANSTADENJOPPIE_20091208_3
De Wet Ek sit hier en gesels met inspekteur Joppie van Staden, afgetrede inspekteur in die polisie wat tot en met 2000 was hy ʼn inspekteur by bomopruimingseenheid van die polisie gewees. Joppie, kan jy vir ons vertel die omstandighede, die aard van julle werk en jy sê daar was baie bomdreigemente gewees en so aan. Verduidelik net vir ons van die grusaamste en die belangrikste bomme wat julle moes ontlont het.
Joppie Ja, die belangrikste was toe ek net begin het in einde 1990 was die Hallmarkbom gewees, maar ek sal nou vir jou sê dit was nie ʼn geplante bom gewees nie. Dit was propaganda gewees.
De Wet So wat jy vir ons sê is dit was nie die ANC wat daai bom geplant het nie.
Joppie Nee.
De Wet Wie was dit gewees?
Joppie Die polisie self.
De Wet So dit was ʼn publisiteitstruuk gewees.
Joppie Ja. Heeltemal en dit was nogal 137kg. En no names no pack drill, maar dis nogal snaaks die mense wat hom gemaak het het himself gaan ontlont. Dan is dit mos baie maklik.
De Wet Verduidelik vir ons waar was die bom geplant en die omstandighede en as hy sou afgaan, ek onthou nog destyds was daar berigte gewees, in daardie gebou. As hy daar sou afgegaan het in die middestad van Pretoria sou dit ontsettende skade aangerig het.
Joppie In vergelyking met die Kerkrstraatbom was maar 28 tot 37kg. En dit was buite in die straat gewees dit was nog oop. Daai een was binne-in die gebou. Hallmark is naby die howe, die advokatekantore en alles is daar naby. Heel moontlik sou daardie hele blok van Paul Krugerstraat af en die Plein ongelooflik beskadig gewees het. Dit was alles Russiese oorsprong springstof wat gebruik was. Daardie hele blok sou verwoes gewees het.
De Wet Watter jaar praat ons nou van.
Joppie 1990.
De Wet Ek verstaan dit was in ʼn minibus-taxi en dit was in die parkeerterrein onder in daardie gebou en daardie gebou is so ongeveer vyftien verdiepings hoog.
Joppie Hallmarkgebou was in die parkeerterrein op die eerste vloer. Dit was ʼn taxi gewees, ja. Net gou dink wat was daardie springstof wat hulle gebruik het. Dit maak nie saak nie dit was alles van Russiese oorsprong en die mense wat hom gaan ontlont het, onskadelik gestel het, was die mense wat hom gebou het. Baie van hulle het ook medaljes gekry daarvoor.
De Wet Maar dit was nooit bekend geraak nie.
Joppie Sal mos nie want propaganda is propaganda.
De Wet Praat ons van George Hammond en sy manne.
Joppie Mmmm. Ja. En die manier wat hy gesê het hoe hy hom ontlont het wat vir my baie funny was met die kursus het hy gesê jy doen dit nie. Vat al die drade alles saam en knip dit een slag af nie. Met die kanse van ʼn kortsluiting want jy weet nie waar kom die krag vandaan nie, dan nou hoekom gaan jy dit dan doen. Dit was al uitweg want die tyd was min. al wat jy doen is jy haal die tydskakelaar af en dit is so maklik soos dit. Jy vat die kragbron weg so dis voor die hand liggend.
Project name: AL3283
Date of interview: 8 December 2009
Location of interview: Rietfontein, Pretoria
Language/s of interview: Afrikaans
Length of interview: 4 minutes 15 seconds
Name of Interviewer: De Wet Potgieter
Name of interviewee/s: Inspector Joppie van Staden
Name of translator (if any): De Wet Potgieter
Name of transcriber:
Notes on access and use (if any):
Audio file name/s of interview: AL3283_PTA_VANSTADENJOPPIE_20091205_3
De Wet I am talking to Inspector Joppie van Staden, retired inspector in the police who were until 2000 attached to the bomb disposal unit of the police. Jopie, tell us the circumstances, the nature of your work and you say there were lots of bomb threats. Describe some of the most gruesome and difficult boms you had to defuse.
Joppie Yes, the most important was soon after I started with the unit at the end of 1990, the Hallmark bomb, but I will tell you now that it was not really planted. It was state propoganda.
De Wet So what you are telling me is that it was not an ANC bomb?
Joppie No.
De Wet Who was it?
Joppie The police themselves.
De Wet So it was in fact a publicity stunt?
Joppie Yes, totally, and in fact it was a 136kg bomb. No names and no pack drill, but the funny thing is that the people who build the bomb went to difuse it again. Then it is easy peezy.
De Wet Explain where the bomb was planted and the circumstances and the impact if it exploded. I still clearly remember at the time there were newspaper reports about that building. If it had gone off in the centre of town the damage would have been immensely.
Joppie In comparison with the Church Street bomb, it was between 28 and 37kg. And it exploded outside in the open in the street. That one was inside a building. Hallmark is close to the courts, the advocate chambers and verything was in close proximity.
Most probably that whole block from Paul Kruger Street down to Church Square would have been severely damaged. It was all Russian explosives. That whole block would have been destroyed.
De Wet What year are we talking about?
Joppie 1990.
De Wet I understood it was inside a mini bus taxi and it was parked in the parking area of that building and that building is about fifteen storey high.
Joppie Hallmark building and it was in the parking area on the first floor. It was a taxi and it was Russian explosives. The people who assembled that bomb went and difuse it. Some of them even received medals afterwards.
De Wet But it was never made known?
Joppie Would never tell because propaganda is propaganda.
De Wet Are we talking about George Hammond and his people?
Joppie Mmmm. Yes. And the way he explained how he defused it was very strange to me because on course he told us in particular not to do it that way. You do not grab all the wires at the same time and simply cut them off.
With the danger of a short circuit because you never know where the powers comes from, why then do it like that? It was the only way out because time was of the essence. All you do is to separate the time switch from the bomb. As simple as that. You take away the power supply… it is clear as daylight.
Courtesy of The South African History Archive (SAHA)
Creator: Potgieter, De Wet Van Staden, Joppie
Contributing Institutions: The South African History Archive (SAHA); MATRIX: The Center for Humane Arts, Letters and Social Sciences Online at Michigan State University
Description: This interview with Inspector Joppie van Staden, a former police inspector attached to the bomb disposal unit, regarding the nature of his work in the bomb disposal unit, consists of an audio recording, transcript and English translation. This interview was conducted, transcribed and translated by De Wet Potgieter on behalf of SAHA in 2009.
Date: December 8, 2009
Location: Pretoria, Gauteng, Republic of South Africa
Format: Audio/mp3
Language: Afrikaans
Rights Management: The South African History Archive (SAHA)